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Bill,

Thank you kindly for helping me out! I am glad that such good bulldog people as yourself exist, especially as I live in the UK (worst luck) where things are hard. The nearest fancier I know lives 250 miles away!

At the end of the day, my friend, I am in this for the bulldogs; whether they are called APBT, "Irish Stafford" or another. You know what they say about the sweetness of a rose...I simply want to learn more, and do my bit for our breed; especially as I have one of the few real game bred dogs in my parts. I feel it is important to keep the lines going - and to keep them GAME! (hog catching, like, of course!).

Hope y'all get over the 'flu real quick, it's been a killer (literally) epidemic in the UK this year. Very best wishes to everyone at PBR and in the bulldog circles across the Pond. From, "Colonel"

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Last week an area woman said she was attacked by 2 pit bulls. That's when the Washington D.C. Police Department put out an "apb" for the 2 pit bulls. Over the weekend the police were given a tip that the pit bulls were being held in an apartment in nearby Capital Heights, MD. The police (Washington, D.C. and Prince Georges County) got a search warrant and went to the apartment building were they found no one to be home. At this point they kicked down the door and shot both of the dogs to death without the presence of animal control. Now, let's just say that these two dogs were not the dogs they were looking for but just two family pets that were left in the apartment. This was a despicable thing to do. I hope your magazine can use its resources to bring this tragedy to light. I am a pit bull owner and my dog ("Q") as I've been told by my veterinarian, is one of the best natured pit bulls they have ever seen. I think something needs to be done about the negative reputation given to these animals is not fair to owners and the animals themselves. Could you please send me a reply on how you feel about this situation. Rick Williams

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From Texas Charlie,

The contest between the pit and the wolverine will probably never happen or maybe it has. so, if it happens, it should take place in a fiction not in true life. in any case, I saw where your bet was placed. Why use a 60lb pit, use that 130 lb I saw in a mag in 1999, on a 50lb wolverine. you didn't catch what I said. If it can kill a cougar, I don't think 3 pits on it at once could get it done. Fact: wolverine chewed through sheet steel oil drum; bite probably over 2,500 lbs. psi; long curved claws on all feet; strength similar to 300lb black bear. Come on, the only reason your fiction has it beating a wolverine is because you're personally attached to the breed. Best use a small female wolverine, a shot or poisoned male or an old specimen for your pup to have a win. We just plain disagree, the vet sees it my way but I can't have a thing to do with settling the issue---that's against the law. By the way, I believe a better fighting dog is possible, mixing a big timber wolf with a big American bulldog. Last, do you believe a pit, even the 130 lb dog, could whip 5 Malamutes at once, 5 on one? Come on, you don't believe it could do that, when a Mal is usually over 130 lbs too, some run to 195lbs--the vet showed me a published account from around 1931 about a wolverine beating the hell out of 5 Mals, 5 on one, flipped one of them over in the air and broke its jaw. Anyway a badger is half the size of a wolverine and I heard plenty about badgers hurting pits. None of this is to say I want to do a human vs. pit match---unless I can bring in that 8 foot Roman giant I read about. I also read about a 575lb black bear taken in Arkansas, you're not going to tell me a pit could whip THAT, are you? Texas Charlie (Timberwolf/AmBull beats APBT due to size!) I know a little bit about pits because I took in a 51lb terrier and he's the fiercest dog I ever had, tried to kill Parker twice but had the sense to back away from the "other." Your vote is cast, mine too, but as I say I don't want to find a tiebreaker. If somebody does, by God, I hope the law throws them in a cell block. I guess you have a pit---got a couple hundred thousand in liability insurance in case he hurts someone and you can't justify it?

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Well, Charlie, as I see it the main difference between you and me is, I know what I'm talking about. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, I have been breeding APBT's for 25 years. And I have been around dogs in general about 30. To the contrary, I did "catch" what you said, It just doesn't have any credibility.

Let's look at your "facts" for a moment (I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word "fact" for starters) . You stated "a wolverine chewed through a steel oil drum". I have seen on several occasions pit bulls chew holes in stainless steel feed pans which, as a welder and worker of metals, I know to be much tougher than steel oil drums. Your second "fact", that a wolverine's "strength is similar to a 300 lb. black bear", I would have to classify as pure speculation unless you can document some sort of test that was done to ascertain that "fact".

Next, in an insulting tone, you suggest "I" use a small female or a "shot, poisoned or old male" wolverine against a huge 130 lb. pit bull and that the only reason in my "fiction" I would bet on the pit bull is because I am attached to the breed. I would argue that :

A. It was you who proposed this ludicrous match in the first place and asked my opinion (which I was foolish enough to offer) presumably based upon my knowledge of the breed. I am not the one who seems to be obsessed with such ridiculous carnage, that would be you, sir. I merely stated that from what I know of the breed's abilities in combat I would bet on one, A GOOD ONE TO BE SURE, but my money would be on a pit against any animal near his size and at this point I will exclude poisonous snakes or creatures living in the water, since your imagination in this subject seems to have no bounds.

B. Your absurd proposal that "a better fighting dog is possible, mixing a big timber wolf with a big American Bulldog" is again, based upon pure speculation and zero knowledge of fighting dogs. Here is a real "fact": NEITHER OF THOSE ARE FIGHTING DOGS, GENIUS! What you would get is a BIG CUR!

C. Your third question/statement (and I paraphrase) "can a pit whip 5 malamutes, because a wolverine can" and therefore if a pit can't then he can't whip a wolverine" is based again upon some ludicrous speculation. First, that it is even true that any wolverine ever whipped 5 malamutes (prove it, sir, if it really happened!) and second that a pit couldn't whip a wolverine one on one just because he couldn't whip 5 malamutes is another speculation that has not been proven. It would seem that because you have no taste to actually try this match you invision you are reduced to "comparing apples to oranges.

I personally find all this tedious and sophomoric. You have offered nothing but idle speculation and academic arguments and anyway, who cares?

In closing I would suggest you find something more productive to do with your time. Bill

(From Charlie) "Even hot lava cools down" maybe we did too. If we can look at our disagreement the way sports fans do, "my team can beat your team," "No, your team will lose," think of it as that or a political thing, Republican vs. Democrat, we don't have to disagree with anger. BR, you say you have seen a pit put the run on, or kill (?) a 300lb boar hog. Was it hunting, or something else? If you don't want to address that, forget I asked. I am not out to police the internet or suggest that someone needs investigating. I'm just a little guy trying to make a living so I can buy the expensive items I give my dog every day to keep him from losing the rest of his vision. Enough of that. On the combat ability of animals, I admit I find it fascinating. I've read that of all land animals, the hyena has the strongest jaw muscles, about 1,700lbs/sq inch. But I have a book claiming 2,000lbs psi for pits, another says 1,500 for a wolf. The wolf does have longer teeth, deeper penetration, I think that's an even trade off. It beats me how no law was broken in making "White Fang," showing a wolf being whipped by a pit, with a bite hold on the side of its neck. In real life, it seems that such a fight couldn't be staged as neither animal could understand he was to fake something. How the bite force of a dog, wolf, hyena or wolverine could be accurately measured, I don't know. And Malamutes aren't curs! Back to the hyena, it was Roger Caras who made the claim it has stronger jaws than any other land animal. I don't buy that. I saw a 550lb lion dragging a 2,000lb cape buffalo. A hyena wouldn't attempt it. As to the strength of a mountain lion--a report from ranchers in California was that a cougar had a bite hold on a 350lb calf, and with the strength of its neck, had lifted the calf fully off the ground, when they shot the cat. My opinion of the Colorado incident is--the lion wasn't interested in fighting the pit when he saw the pit was going to make a fight. The lion wasn't so hungry that he/she cared. The dog probably startled it as cats are temperamental. We still get back to the problem of, the dog has one weapon--its jaws, the cat/glutton has 5 weapons.

An article from the London Times, Thursday, June 3, 1954, page 6 (local university microfilm) told of a bull terrier--less of a fighter than an APBT--that "prevented two leopards from entering the homestead last night." The dog however died of blood loss from claw laceration wounds. If the cats really wanted to get past that dog, they would have done so. I know the Audubon Society is associated with birds. Science Digest, August 1972, page 64 said--(article titled, "Meanest Animal In The World") "Weighing only 50 pounds fully grown, the wolverine fights grizzly bears, mountain lions, and armed men. Its strength and cunning are legendary. This fiery, unbelievably powerful little beast..."National Parks Magazine, Oct. 1964, p. 9 said: "I have never been able to figure out why the bears were so outrageously frightened at the onslaught of the wolverine, unless they had been taught by long experience that the wolverine is an animal that once engaged in combat fights to the death. The very large feet are equipped with sharp, curved claws. Both teeth and claws are formidable armaments. Reputed to be the most powerful animal for its size in existence, the wolverine has no equal in dogged courage." If you look closely at the image you'll notice the long curved, very sharp claws. Longer and stouter than a bobcat's and with much more muscular power behind them. On a "Wild America" video (yes, I heard some of them might be staged, but again, how do you get two wild animals to play act a concocted scene?) I saw a wolverine take over a wolf kill, when the wolf circled back the weasel got on its back---not a sign of giving up as when a dog does it---and raked upwards with its claws. The wolf looked totally frightened and ran off. Think of this difference of viewpoint we've had as what happens when Ford and Chrysler advertise their vehicles. Whoever pays for the commercial "wins," but is not a neutral party. I would at least be interested in determining which has the hardest bite, realizing that the few wolverines in zoos and the hard to find ones in the wild might not cooperate. Ahh, yes. I read about a 220lb Rottweiler if he isn't overweight, a very powerful dog, maybe the extra 90lbs would be too much for that 130lb pit to overcome. If I were the type person I should be I wouldn't wonder about such things. They can't be established without hurting animals, and most of my thoughts oppose that. A suggestion you've probably never thought of--try writing a song about pits and getting it on the radio waves. Or see if someone else can do it. There is a market for novelty songs. adios, Tx Charlie

I don't really care about the argument "who will win between a pit bull and a wolverine". When would that ever happen anyway? The reason I am so dubious about "opinions" whether they are Roger Caras' (who hates pit bulls along with the rest of the animal rights wackos, or the Audubon Society which writes books and stories about animals to SELL Books, is because so little is known about "wild animal fights" and what happens one time between a "lion vs. a tiger" may turn out completely different the next time. The situation is this: you are trying to compare "fighters" and wild animals are not fighters, they are hunters and that is a completely different behavior.

Since they are 200 lb. of solid muscle, unless an infection killed him, I'm sure he was okay. One of the best films I have seen was "Lions and Hyenas" on PBS. Absolutely fascinating! They are bitter enemies that hate each others guts and live and hunt the same territory. Amazing footage which seemed to be authentic. I assure you a lion can kill a hyena (or a wolverine for that matter) as quickly as it would a collie! But a half dozen hyenas may kill a (female) lion and often do if they can catch one alone. Now to bulldogs (pits) and other animals. Wild animals, as I have said are not generally "fighters." They need to hunt for food and have some awesome weapons with which to do that but their mindset is geared toward survival and fighting and being wounded (with no veterinary care, remember) is the antithesis to survival in many cases. Therefore wild animals are not what bulldoggers call "game". They will usually avoid a fight with another formidable animal and indeed, will not usually jump even a big healthy prey animal. This may be why a grizzly will not usually fight a wolverine. Also, wolverines are in the skunk family (they are really just a giant skunk) and smell very strongly themselves. Bears have very good noses and probably don't like the smell. They will also back down from a skunk in may cases, by the way. That doesn't mean a skunk can "whip" them. On the other hand I have heard of bulldogs that love to kill skunks and seem to become almost "addicted" to their smell! Hard to believe perhaps but I know of no animal a bulldog will not fight if given the chance. I have even seen them fight a swarm of yellowjackets!

Hello for the last time, Bill:

Because our usefulness to each other is completed. What I learned from you---don't engage pit bull fanciers in debates as to the capabilities of their dogs. Where my views differ from theirs, there will be no reconciliation. I already knew the difference between a hunting animal and a fighting animal. A cougar can be treed by plain hound dogs. Its killing ability becomes apparent if cornered. A wolverine is interested in a fight only to kill prey or to drive off the predator that made the kill or to defend itself. Tact? I thought I became more so after the first email. I thought you did too till today. I promise to not annoy you any more! Pit bull fanciers are on the defensive I realize due to the press stories usually being negative. But if the accounts are true, the dogs are being used as illegitimate weapons against each other, other dogs, and people. Newfoundlands were bred as water rescue dogs and log haulers in Canada. St. Bernards were bred as mountain rescue dogs. Huskies were bred to pull sleds, etc. etc., other working dogs like sheep and cattle dogs, guide dogs for the blind. Only the "half and half" was bred, in English speaking areas, to fight. That in itself I will never agree is a legitimate purpose. Those who fight their dogs don't love them, there are no fights without injuries. Gladiators went out with Rome! On to other matters now. Like that 12th repetition in the one arm chin up that I'm gunning for.

C H A R L I E

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FYI,

Appears a Dogman was arrested by officials during a routine Fire Fighting strategy check when there Helicopter flew over his hillside dog yard with well over 100+ dogs.. All in very good health with the exception of some minor scars nothing major.
Your in Fancy, KAG

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From: Willam White

Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 11:05 PM

Subject: the truth about how Boudreaux "Eli" is really bred!! I want to first state that what I have say might change the way people look at Boudreaux and Bullyson dogs. People who breed game bred APBTs are probably very familiar with the "Eli" strain of dogs. Known to be very rough and hard mouthed dogs, they are used to outcross to other lines to create battle dogs for the pit. But the problem that people don't know about is the real way "Eli" was bred. Many people are under the assumption that "Eli" was out of Boudreaux "Scrub" and Boudreaux "Candy" because that's the way they have seen it in a pedigree. Nothing could be further from the truth!! What everybody doesn't know is that "Eli" was a don Mayfield bred dog bred down from the old earl Tudor's "Dibo" stuff, not the Boudreaux "blind Billy" dogs. Floyd Bordeaux's "Eli" dogs back then were buckskin/tan colored dogs that neeeeever threw black dogs because F.B. never used any black dogs in his breeding program back then. Well, during that time don Mayfield dogs were primarily black dogs. Anyway, to make a long story short Don Mayfield had a pregnant bitch that he could not keep at the time because of personal problems he was having at home. So, he asked Floyd Boudreaux to take care of her until he straightened things out at home. When everything (was) o.k. he would return for her. To show his appreciation, he would give Floyd Boudreaux a pup or two when she had her litter. Well, when Mayfield returned for the bitch and her pups Boudreaux told Mayfield that all the pups had died during the delivery. Mayfield had to painfully accept this and took his "would be" brood bitch back to his yard.

Well a couple of years go by and there was this a big convention going on in some part of the country Mayfield and Boudreaux were both there and guess what, Boudreaux shows up with black colored dogs. This really surprised everyone there including Mayfield. When Boudreaux dogs were being matched everyone there was saying how they looked and fought like Mayfield dogs!! So Mayfield asked Boudreaux were those the dogs that were supposedly supposed to have died during their birth. Of course Boudreaux denied this but Mayfield knew better. In the 1980's a lot of people who had Boudreaux dogs gave up on them because a lot of them were quitting in the pit. To save his line from disaster, Floyd Boudreaux asked don Mayfield if he could use some of his blood to strengthen his own line because of the amount of low caliber dogs his breedings were producing. Mayfield turned him down because of the "raw deal" Boudreaux gave him the first time with the pups. Boudreaux managed to get his hands on a well bred Mayfield dog. You all know him as Boudreaux "Maverick". That's right!! "Maverick" is a Mayfield bred dog. Floyd Boudreaux falsified pedigree papers on him and now you see him in almost all Floyd Boudreaux bred dogs. Maverick is a 6x winner who is really down from Mayfield's "Pit General" stock. So, if you think have a truly genuine bred Boudreaux dog think again!!

P.s. if you receive sporting dog journal, backtrack a couple of issues. You will find a article called "the unknown dogman". It covers speculation about the "Eli" dog and how he was truly bred.

From: willam White

Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 11:37 AM

subject: about pit general, maverick and eli.

That still does not change the fact "Eli" is a Mayfield bred dog!! And for your information "maverick" is supposedly out of Reddick's "Herman" and Boudreaux "Liza", not "midnight cowboy". one more note for you, "pit general" was bred!! Don Mayfield just never made it public. I know this because I've spoken to don Mayfield personally!! I have spoken to other dogmen who can verify this fact. Call the facts for what they are, Boudreaux made his reputation off don Mayfield!!

That was a long time ago and at this point in time I don't think anyone (other than you and Don) really care about this "story". If there were any proof that this is true I would be right up there with you on the soapbox but Don has never offered any, waited 30 years to bring it all up and frankly, hates Floyd's guts from what I've read from Don. And I know for a fact that if Don told you he either bred Pit General or got pups off of him then he has lied about that to you. I suggest you find a new cause, my friend. You are beating a dead horse with this one. Bill

From: willam White

I definitely have heard that "rumor" about how "Zebo", Vindicator" and "Rosie" were not sired by Lonzo's "Andy" and "Angie". But from what I was told, (not by Don) those dogs were sired by dogs down from the Tudor/Mayfield dogs. You can argue that case by saying that would explain the reason why "Vindicator" was a red/red nosed dog and "Zebo" was black as was "Rosie". A lot of Mayfield dogs are either black or red/red nosed. I also have a good friend who knew Ralph Greenwood. Greenwood's "Okie" was also sired by the "Andy" dog and from Greenwood told him, "Andy" never sired a red red nosed in his life!! It just goes to show you really don't know how a lot of dogs are supposedly bred. Now about this Carver thing, if my memory serves me correct, the Long's "Baby" bitch was brought to Carver from an outside party to breed to "Bullyson" and Carver saw that as a chance for quick cash and went on with the breeding. Sound familiar, a lot of present day dogmen do the same thing. I also spoke with A.W. McCool. He told me Carver taught him everything he knew and he has "THE REAL" Carver bred dogs and the rest of that stuff floating out there is bullshit blood. Weather or not this holds to be true I really don't know, but I will be doing my research on that topic.

P.S. I did speak to Floyd Boudreaux about him supposedly falsifying papers on "Eli" and he didn't want to talk about it!! He's made himself look awfully guilty in MY humble opinion.

Great! Now you are demonstrating a good honest skepticism! Definitely necessary when studying pedigrees on these dogs. The only point I would like to make (again) is: don't forget to apply it to Don. Willam, he may be telling the truth about some of this stuff or he may be making things up, I honestly wish I knew. Problem is, he has said some pretty wild things in the past and written some of the most outlandish stuff I have ever seen in print about bulldogs. Hence I am fairly skeptical about what he says, particularly since he offers no evidence to support any of it. I do know there has been a lot of shenanigans in these dogs from theft to paper hanging and we will never straighten their pedigrees out. That is why I tell greenhorns it is best to look a lot harder at the dogs than at the pedigrees! Do you concur? Bill

Well, I can honestly say that Don has never told me anything "outlandish" about bulldogs. In fact, the stuff he's told me is so true its downright shocking!! One thing I definitely want to point out is I'm not taking sides with Don at all. It's just that I've been doing a lot of research on what strains of bulldog do the best in the squared circle and I have come up with an interesting conclusion. The Tudor/Mayfield lines are not shown in the circuit too much these days, but when they are they win almost all the time. If you take into consideration of all the other popular strains there are that are consistently shown (ie Jeep, Redboy, Zebo, Bullyson, Bolio and their crosses) when a Mayfield dog shows up, and can damn near dominate all the time, well Mayfield dogs is where it's at!! Let me know what you think of a GOOD Mayfield dog because from what I've seen from them and everything else, nothing can compare to a good Mayfield dog. And I've heard A LOT of trash talk about how someone's Chinaman dogs can take out any Mayfield dog in the world. I don't want to mention any names (uhum, uhum, uhum Tom Garner) but when it's action time, the Mayfield dogs win so easily it's downright pathetic and embarrassing (for the other dog that is). Let me know what you think of this.

Years ago I sent a decent little dog overseas (Little Rock was his name) and he was matched into a "pure Mayfield" dog from Don. He was very rough but mine was gamer and outlasted him in 1:23 when the Mayfield dog quit. This is one of the few instances of one being matched that I can remember in the last 15 years or so. This same fellow had more "pure Mayfield" dogs that performed about the same, from what I was told by my friends over there. He too bought into a lot of Don's fantasies about the "purest families" and all that.

PS Willam, we are doing "show news" again. Do you have any reports of action with Mayfield dogs you would like to send in? If they are doing so well I would love to know about it and I'm sure our readers would too.